Discussion+Forum

=Discussion Forum=


 * Date: 01/03/2012**
 * Members in attendance**: Miatta, Ryan, Katie, Keira


 * What was discussed**: selecting sub-strand


 * Goals**:

- Select a sub-strand - Divide year levels between group member to analyse


 * What was achieved?:**

- Money and financial mathematics selected as strand. - Years levels divided between members to analyse progression of DK and PK

Miatta: Years 1-2 Keira: Years 3-4 Katie: Years 5-6 Ryan: Years 7-9

Hey girls, hope your having a good weekend...just looking at the Money and Financial Mathematics and a bit unsure what to do...and if there is enough 'meat' in this strand to talk about. In year five and six there is only one content descriptor each so therefore it makes it quite obvious what the progression of Declarative and Procedural Knowledge is. Have you found the same? Or am I just confused with what to do? Katie 10th March

I see what you mean Katie, I like the look of patterns and algebra maybe and I even like the look of the fractions one?? do you think we should change. Miatta 12th March

umm i think we should change, I'm not sure there is going to be enough in the strand to give us enough to talk about. Keira 12th March

Yes I think we all agree, unless of course it gets meatier further along? I only looked to grade four. any suggestions for other sub-strands we like? do you have the wiki link? Miatta 13th March

Hey - Keira and Ryan, Katie and I have been talking and thinking that we could keep going on the Money and financial mathematics. Taking a more in depth look at it we think there is actually quite a lot to work with. We think that it interrelates with the other sub strands in the Number and Algebra strand as well as other strands in the curriculum. Although there aren't as many content descriptors there is a lot of learning outcomes that are dependent on the progression of knowledge over the year levels. We noticed for instance that the content descriptor that discusses ordering coins in year 2 relates to the knowledge developed in foundation year in other sub-strands. (Miatta - and Katie)


 * Date - 5/3/2012**

After some discussion we decided to continue on with the Money and Financial Mathematics sub strand. Following on from that, I have looked at the Yr 1&2 content descriptors and updated the wiki today.
 * (following update from Miatta)**

I have also been thinking about the misconceptions. I have included these as alternate conceptions on my page as this seemed to be the more PC term from what I read this morning.

I added a scope and sequence page, as it allows me to see the flow of the substrand. I am also seeing the connections between the other substrands and the DK and PK required in the Money substrand, such as the number and place value understandings that are needed to then be able to work with money.

The textbook and also the 'Teaching Primary Mathematics' book identify money as a measurement of value. The text book mentions that money for this reason is included in the measurement strand of The Australian Curriculum - but references this with ACARA 2010. Was money originally in the measurement strand? Does this have any bearing on our assignment? Or just demonstrate the way that different areas of mathematics are linked?

Katie- I read that too and I was confused! I think that maybe that is where it was located in the draft curriculum? It just goes to show how interrelated each of the strands are...money is a measurement of value but its foundations are also grounded in the number and place value strand. I have found this article and skimmed it...it is discussing how their is a need for more financial literacy in the curriculum. After all to be numerate in today's society requires a sound at the least proficiency in this strand as well as an understanding of the language associated with it. Perhaps by placing it into the number and place value strand there is the intent that there will be a greater focus on it? Have a read of this article and tell me what you think about it.

Katie 6/3/2012

Miatta- Thanks Katie, I really liked that article and it makes a lot of sense to me. I have looked at the reference list and there are some interesting articles that are linked. One by the Australian Association of Mathematics teachers and one from ASIC. Both are about financial literacy. I don't think that there is much scope for discussing the financial literacy angle in this assignment but I think it is important enough to be mentioned maybe? what do you think? - I just felt really enthusiastic while flicking through these articles and so I thought you might want to check them out. I'll email you the links.

Katie- Miatta I definitely agree with you...I have been thinking about misconceptions that stem from the language used in financial maths. For instance "he made money"...imagine the confusion that that could cause for a child who believed that their parents went to work and physically made currency! I think that we should at least make mention of this in our issues and challenges. Some of these misconceptions could have been developed from a young age...I think in today's society children's experiences with money prior to school would differ vastly from those that even we personally had growing up. What I am trying to say is that for many students these days the only experiences that they have with money are those conducted with the swipe of a card...from a never-ending money source (ATM). How confusing could this be coming to school with these experiences and then having to develop the knowledge and language of currency that they haven't experienced. There are also concepts that may not have been developed such as that goods and services have a value and that these vary vastly. When you pay for an item with a credit card it doesn't matter if it is $6 or $600 there is no concept of worth or deductions evident. Manipulating money, calculating costs and simple transactions in school will require a knowledge of basic concepts!!

Miatta- Yes, I notice that kind of stuff too with my own kids. They do just think that money comes out of ATMs with no connection to it being a finite resource. I think it is particularly relevant to learners today as so many of them have mobile phones and other financially dependent purchases to be responsible for at a much younger age. They are really focussed on as consumers. Also considering the financial climate financial literacy is really part of teaching money maths.


 * Date - 12/03/12**


 * This meeting took place on Facebook chat**

Keira - I have looked at the comparison across the year levels and although there is no specific content in the foundation year for the money and financial strand, I think it is important to note that learners would still have some exposure to this.

Ryan - yer that's a good point.

Keira - I was thinking the same thing

Ryan - maybe we could say something about how students will have gained some exposure to money in their homes and at school?


 * Date - 21/03/2012**


 * Members in attendance:** Katie, Miatta and Ryan

- All members progression of the PK and DK were collated - Progression of PK and DK was added to the graphic organiser - Each member was allocated specific year levels and was required to identify the key developmental stages within them Following email was sent out to all group members following the meeting;
 * What was achieved:**

Hi guys,

As discussed in this weeks meeting each person needs to find the key developmental stages evident in the year level that has been assigned. Seeing as we are becoming familiar with the years we have been working with already we have decided to swap them to give everyone broader understanding of each year level

We are hoping to have this done by early next week so we can have a meeting on the 28th next week.

Chat soon

Katie

Hi Guys,

We have now identified the key stages of development and have a a good idea about where we are heading with the issues and challenges facing the learners in this strand of mathematics. We are now each required to take our specific year levels and draw out the key issues and challenges and identify the cause/origin of these. We will be meeting next week to collate all of our findings and to start writing the literature based responses to the items that have been found.

Keira

Miatta-

Well I am going to start a list here of some things that I believe could be challenges (feel free to add)! *The course text has raised quite a few good issues/challenges

- coins value being relative to the size (i.e. a 50c coin is worth more than a $2 coin because it is bigger). - confusion about the number on the coin (students may struggle to understand that a 5 cent coin is '5' when it is only one object)...this could relate to trusting the count

Second thoughts...I have created a page...lets just add as we go :-)

Hey guys, just a question about year seven with the content descriptor, "Investigate and calculate "best buys" with and without technologies". I think that I may be over-analysing this but what exactly constitutes a "best buy"? I am sure that in this context it is implying that a 'best buy' is decided based upon comparing unitary values (i.e. a 250gram packet of biscuits worth $5 is better value that a $150 packet at $2.5). My question is what about factors such as quality? Surely a packet of biscuits passed it used-buy date would not be a "best buy" regardless of price right?

Katie

Okay Katie, yes I understand what you are saying however I think that in this context it is referring to the unitary value...so I don't think that it would be a part of our key stages of development. How about we put it into our challenges?

Miatta

Okay yeah that sounds like a good idea, because I am sure that there are some students that would ask this question.

Katie

Miatta-

In the elaborations for year four it mentions recognising dollars and cents as decimal systems. I am wondering what does this mean?

Katie-

I am going have a stab in the dark...I am thinking of other currencies and how they are not all 100 cents to the dollar...I know that this an ancient example but wasn't the 12 pennies in a shilling? I think that is what they mean by different decimal systems??? Keira- Yes I am quite confused about this also. I have looked through a few readings but can't seem to draw an understanding from these. I have a feeling it's because I dont remember being taught that there is any other system then the base ten system. I could see that this would be a challenge. Miatta-

Oh like time where it is 60seconds in 1 minute not 100seconds?

Katie- In the textbook it mentions that rounding in money does not present a good example of the base 10 system...is this purely to do with the language associated with it (i.e. when saying $3.65 I would say 3 dollars and sixty-five cents). Is the challenge then that I am speaking in ones and then in tens and ones? Sorry worded badly...hope you comprehend?

Miatta- I read the same bit of the text book. I've had a think about it and I think the base 10 system refers to the kind of thing we talked about before, like the different examples of decimal systems, in a way. the text book calls them numeration systems or something. Like for instance, the idea that it doesn't have to be ten of something to make the 'composite countable grouping'. In my book "Maths for Mums and Dads" it explains it as this - imagine that you only have four fingers, now counting on your fingers when you reach 8 instead of 8 you have reached 10 so it looks like this 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,10,11,12. the numeral 8 does not exist in a base 8 system because at that finger you 'regroup' to the next '10' .Sorry, it is quite hard to grasp at first but I will show you the chapter in the book at uni and you will probably understand it. I've always heard about binary systems being base 2 and not really understood how that worked but now I am beginning to understand it.- sorry this is a bit of a tangent, but I found I really needed to understand what was meant by different base numeration systems!

Going back to your question, I'm not sure but I think it is linked to the language as dollars and sense can be seen as their own discrete units. the textbook goes on to mention the links to measurement, and I have been thinking of it as similar to talking about centimetres and metres. For instance cm are their own unit of measurement - but they are also 'parts' of metres. cents in my mind can be seen the same way in relation to dollars. I suppose maybe this is why money isn't a great example of a base ten system? Sorry not sure if I've answered your question - but it gave me lots to think about.

Miatta - Just pasting this here while I work on the page of issues and challenges in case we need it later... Katie, I think you jotted this down last night but I can't exactly remembe what we were going to do with it? The ability to recognise explain to think about to make conjectures about to graph to transformto compare to make judmetns about to represent or to sybolise relationships of two simple type in direct ...and inverse proportion